Are Werebeasts Really that Bad?

[Iron Zeppelin]

Every1 goes on about how boring and hard it is being a WB, but is it really a waste of time or no?

[Macanfly]

in my exerience as a wb

1-20 easy for all classes
20-50 long and tedious, a big hump to get over
50-60 little bit better but still tedious
60+ much better, damage is much higher, all the extra pdef and hp finally means something. suddenly i my kill rate is close to the other classes (higher than a lot of the wr's i team with)
of course these things are really build-dependent
my build is mostly tank-oriented so of course things are going to be slow
and these slow periods can also potentially be attributed to my not knowing the best way to do things and making things hard for myself

[Hell Ice]

When new maps are being released, new bosses will be released as well, and none can tank those except WB.

For PK:

Best PK scene i ever seen is the one at Night Cry Island, flying is forbidden at that place, so everyone walks. I became one of the witnesses of how a WB and a WR killed 20+ people with WB using just 1 skill and WR using 2 skills.

Secret on how its done though.

[Irythros]

WBs are good and bad...

If you get in a good guild, you can probably get a weekly payment for TW. You also determine FB/HH parties. No WB = no party.

1-20 on a WB is mostly simple.
20-40 is alot of pots.
40-60 is simple. You can do aoe parties for 40-52 and then dwan for 52-60.
60+ is AoE parties.

As for PvP they're not that great. If a person runs back even a fraction of an inch you have to move and start attacking again. Now, if you got buffs, gear and a healer you should be set to run in and gank the hell outta the mage and EA (bloodbath).

[Macanfly]

.

You can do aoe parties for 40-52

what kind of aoe parties are these?
and how come no one ever told me about them when i was busting my ass to get over than hump?

more advice: join a guild with lots of low levels and join every single fb that becomes available

[Markillian]

If by bad you mean the best and most wanted tanks, then yes, werebeasts are bad. VERY bad.

Especially end game when they can 1hitko everyone with armageddon. They're horrible.

[Senovit]

what kind of aoe parties are these?
and how come no one ever told me about them when i was busting my ass to get over than hump?

more advice: join a guild with lots of low levels and join every single fb that becomes available

Probably solo aoe'ing, or dual aoe'ing with a warrior. You won't be able to make aoe parties that 60+ people make since the priest can't blueball, but I dunno. Maybe they can spam party heal from the air :v

[Irythros]

AoE south of the town on the west side of the map, near the hut.

[Farewell]

If by bad you mean the best and most wanted tanks, then yes, werebeasts are bad. VERY bad.

Especially end game when they can 1hitko everyone with armageddon. They're horrible.

=O can u tell me more detail about tis. i m curious, very curious :o

[Salt4UrWounds]

He was being sarcastic >.>

[Kardaron]

=O can u tell me more detail about tis. i m curious, very curious :o

/facepalm

[Macanfly]

He was being sarcastic >.>

/facepalm

well, the wb's "Perdition" skill can be the strongest attack in the game depending on the wb's stats


half the wb's hp and mp gets transferred directly to damage, plus a few thousand damage base. the wb with the most hp, according to cuz, has over 20k hp untransformed.
simple fury burst would cause it to be 150% damage
done in a berserk state would double the damage
and a critical would double the berserk damage
total damage would be between 80 and 90 thousand

well if you want to get into theoretical
if that wb did this greatest combination of damage to a wf
and that wf had bramble array going
the damage returned to the wb would be between 160 and 180 thousand


but still perdition on a high level wb is not to be ignored

[Hell Ice]

Unfortunately, the skill will consume half of your HP as well, and if you do not have hieros its just plain suicide to me in some cases.

WB can kill WR solo on a regular basis. While WR always stuns WB, WB with 79fb metallic ring(+50% accuracy 5-6 CON) and 69FB Axe(Berserk) can actually KO WR with the following method:

Keep Fury until its maxed. Without using skills that consume fury hit WR until it goes barely above half HP. Then take in potions(Keep hiero from refreshing to save your live in case the WR survives) 1 fury explosion boost 150% damage, if lucky you evaded his skills as well, then Perdition. most of the time WR will be dead instantly without even given the chance to refresh his hiero. If he is not dead? It will be plain wasting hieros and suggest you to run to avoid unnecessary waste.

About the aoe mass killing, in time when there are fights between guilds at the world(usually known as mass PK where one guild PK another one outside safe zone) sometimes casters an archers tend to stay in a bunch. I am not sure if special pots are now available in International but you will need that to have a guaranteed mass kill. WB and WR (max fury) eat the -50% damage pot, WB change form. WR and WB get to the bunch, WR roars(area stun) and use the heaven dragon(59 axe area skill, target gets double damage inflicted for the next few seconds) and WB use the perdition. In time you will see either all of them or majority of those players in that bunch goes lying dead unless the Perdition missed some of them.

[Farewell]

wow WB really send fear through my spine. =O i m now thinking how 2 win WB. :ugeek:

[AmorFati]

well to me i dont believe that WB are useless. i believe that infact there are used way too much as meat shields being total con builds. its what they are made for you say? bull. if a WB's soul purpose in the game is to be ONLY a tank skills such as perdition wouldn't have been made. maybe you say skills like this where made to offset the fact WBs are tanks well good luck. a counter argument to this could be the WB's health buff. i would say that a WB is meant to be a versatile attack/defense build and that if you stat them right they shouldn't have a hard time pking the hell out of any class.

[Segomo]

Lol WB usseless...maybe if ye screw up your build.

A good Wb can tank almost any boss for starting, HH or FB's.
Also cultivation bosses without problem and with a good healer.
No other proffesion can.


As for aoe parties WB dont need them.
When you use a hiero you can aoe solo and with the drops you can easly buy your hiero.
I have a high lvl mage and a high lvl wb.
My mage is poor as a hobo. but my WB has full HH gold gear. thats the difference. And my WB lvl's 3 times faster.

As for pvp allot depends on your build,your gear, on youself, and on your connection....if you have a skill delay of 2-3 sec.........

My Bro when his WB was around lvl 75 was PK-ed once by a WB 85+ and the pk-er had to run or was killed by my bro.

Maybe one tip..be carefull when you go pk in ye underware.

But to be honest. Once you reach a decent lvl. you will find out there are no usseless proffesions. A balanced team needs the right people for the right job.
And in my opinion a pure pvp build will never earn the amount of money to buy the right gear to hold your oponant at high lvl, thats when you wanne fight people in an honest way...from the same lvl.

A good lvl 90 gear cost you about 120 milj. thats without the stones.And without the wep.and without the price of the destroyed lvl 80 gear.
If you wanne buy that with cubits ( item mall gold) that will cost you hundreds of dollars.
A good Wb can farm lower lvl HH drops and with a WF ( not only for pulling, but for them buff , and dmge to )and good EP the higher lvl HH's.

[Swore]

WB is the most "ROCKING" class ever, for example in Delphi. A 100+lvl WB
爱Mimix *there is a star between the name*, he is freaking powerful high hp high attk. He can tank almost anything and no1 can stop him in TW. Wif Hiero... He is simply GODLY. :o

[Hell Ice]

WB is the most "ROCKING" class ever, for example in Delphi. A 100+lvl WB
爱Mimix *there is a star between the name*, he is freaking powerful high hp high attk. He can tank almost anything and no1 can stop him in TW. Wif Hiero... He is simply GODLY. :o

I can guarantee you i can stop him with a lv99 MG.

Now what WB can have when going through TW?

Black Tortlen Possess - 30 secs.
lv5 no damage med - 5 secs.
lv3 no damage med + paralyse(Can be recovered by EP) - 6 secs?
lv5 damage reduce 50% med

Now basically these are a few meds and methods a werebeast will use in TW.

What can a MG do? WB might eat some magic defense boosting med, so my goal is to make sure he gets stuck at the entrance before the car can enter the gate.

i will use Blizzard Blast + HailStorm + Sand Vortex + Gush to slow or paralyse him. In time i will wait him to use all his methods above or not a chance at all. When his hiero jumped, his black tortlen gone, i am going to use?

Essence of Wisdom Sutra + Blasting Point + Dark HydroDrake + med recover 1.5 fury instantly + Mountain Press. This is proven to wipe out tigers and WRs just in the gate since all are area damage, sublime MG Blasting Point ensures all area char got ensealed at the spot = mass killing. If there is a need to do things better all i need is another WR to use the dragon skill, a WF to donate 1-2 fury so i will be able to use the Pyro-Edge Tempest, the results are still astonishing.

[Senovit]

Theory fighter is top tier.

[Hell Ice]

Theory fighter is top tier.

not theoretically, i will try and post up a picture on how to do it in tomorrow's war but its not guaranteed to happen so hopefully i can get 1.

[Senovit]

Eh, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I just don't like seeing people say things like Use skill a, then skill b, then skill c, and then he's dead and you'll win!

Although, if you really do want to post a pic, just ask any wb in your server with over 25k hp + a hiero to have a fight with you (not a duel preferably), and post the damage logs. Wars are a bit too chaotic :v

[Macanfly]

keep in mind the wb swore was talking about is level 100+ and has +11 and +12 on all of his equipment
well over 30k hp

[Senovit]

Yeah, I think the number was around 32k. But I figured that was an extreme case, and wanted a more conservative hp amount, while still being higher than your average poor wb =p

[Hell Ice]

Eh, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I just don't like seeing people say things like Use skill a, then skill b, then skill c, and then he's dead and you'll win!

Although, if you really do want to post a pic, just ask any wb in your server with over 25k hp + a hiero to have a fight with you (not a duel preferably), and post the damage logs. Wars are a bit too chaotic :v

The problem is i don't have an MG to do the test :confused:

However about those theories i mentioned, its a practice already, since the whole process is a chain reaction.

[Hell Ice]

keep in mind the wb swore was talking about is level 100+ and has +11 and +12 on all of his equipment
well over 30k hp

Name please?

[Salt4UrWounds]

爱Mimix *there is a star between the name*

Tada. Ewwie Hell double posted :3

[Hell Ice]

Tada. Ewwie Hell double posted :3

I din notice that sorry:(

Still familiar with the Discuz! Forum System. Will need some time to pick up with vBulettin:confused:

[Swore]

I jus notice tat every1 of Mimix equipments add at least 1.2k hp... I will try to get some SS and post it up.

[aaerdan]

Never met Mimix personally, but those who have say that the typical above average WB is dead when Mimix's hiero ticks... Mimix has that many HP.

Based on two-month-old images of his equipment, excluding +% HP upper limit and bonuses from +Con, he gains a little over 8,000hp. Throw in his +5% upper limit and about +50 Con (for WB that adds 850hp) from equipment....

[Swore]

Never met Mimix personally, but those who have say that the typical above average WB is dead when Mimix's hiero ticks... Mimix has that many HP.

Based on two-month-old images of his equipment, excluding +% HP upper limit and bonuses from +Con, he gains a little over 8,000hp. Throw in his +5% upper limit and about +50 Con (for WB that adds 850hp) from equipment....

UPDATED: Mimix has about 40khp and yet he is not a con build... :ugeek::confused:
Imagine if he was con build... INVINCIBLE

[aaerdan]

UPDATED: Mimix has about 40khp and yet he is not a con build... :ugeek::confused:
Imagine if he was con build... INVINCIBLE

You have the screenshots to show us? If yes, please do!

[Farewell]

i heared tat mimix hav almost all +12 n uses stones of grade10/11
=O

[CuzMoar]

Here's the deal... almost every class is fairly well balanced. In pk, WF's are a bit overpowered with phoenixes but other than that it's not too bad. Mimix is a ridiculous case considering most of his equipment is +12 and +11 which would cost thousand of $ USD.

And HellIce you're forgetting the WB skill that allows them 10 seconds of immunity from seal/stun/sleep/slow etc etc.

[Hell Ice]

Here's the deal... almost every class is fairly well balanced. In pk, WF's are a bit overpowered with phoenixes but other than that it's not too bad. Mimix is a ridiculous case considering most of his equipment is +12 and +11 which would cost thousand of $ USD.

And HellIce you're forgetting the WB skill that allows them 10 seconds of immunity from seal/stun/sleep/slow etc etc.

It really doesn't make a lot of difference with the 10 seconds. You will have to use it before you enter the gate if you are to avoid the seal from MG, and it would take 5-6 seconds for you to reach the crystal. The car attacks at 1 hit per 2-3 seconds. So you will only be able to get a 2 hit before your status buff wears off.

Another thing is, you can have 40k HP with a hiero and a MG can still have you dead in no time.

Taking the WB you guys are frequently talking about, assume his level is 101, i guess he is a sublime WB? Full sublime skills + equipments +12 and HP stones rank 12.

Taking a MG with a damage like this:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e100/qwewheng/35400593pn4.jpg

Do you think he can survive without his invulnerable skills and meds? Besides, MGs can consume meds too to cast skills without cast time and boost their magical powers.

Assume again, this is a sublime MG, the sublime skills are even more devastating:

Dark HydroDrake
50% chance to increase magic damage critical rate up to 30% for 10 seconds.

Moistcuring
Increases magical damage up to 100%(Thats 200% magical damage) for 15 seconds.

Flaming Torch
Compound damage increase of 15% for every burn.

I am just wondering, how long can this WB survive when he encounter a MG like this?

[Senovit]

Theory fighter is top tier.

.

Useless to discuss who would win in a fight against a MG and a WB and doing nothing but posting their equips :v. "Oh a mage can use hell fury burst and winzzzz!" "No, the wb can cancel or use swing smack" "No, the mage will definitely be in the back so the wb gets stopped at the gate!" "Well, considering the mage will now be at least 2v1'ing the wb, we should be fair and consider the wb will have teamates too, like iono, priests?!?!" "Yeah well in TW the mage will have werefoxes too to debuff the WB and then he won't even get 30k hp and he'll be so easy to 2 shot with a mage, priest or not" "Oh yeah well the WB side has werefoxes too and they can debuff your hell fury" "They can't get close enough to debuff, we'll stop them at the gate" "You mean you'd ignore the WB to go after the WF in the event they decide to debuff you as soon as you hell fury?" "GRABGBEKJRABGA"

[aaerdan]

Well, Mimix's souped-up equips are, at least, real, and according to reliable sources, so is his hp. Those are, for all intents and purposes, fact.

If the MG in the example is at least 51% certain to be able to deal 320,000 damage within 10 seconds (taking into account PvP damage reduction, and with the 40,000hp WB armed with a hiero), then anything is possible.

[Senovit]

Even if the Mage were capable of dealing 320k damage in 10 seconds, I still get annoyed when people discuss things like this on forums. v.v

But I'll sit out on this topic. I guess the question now is whether or not a WB can be killed by a mage, not whether or not the mage can beat the wb in a fight.

[Macanfly]

okay, it turns out mimix has several sets of equipment
this equipment is what he uses when he "eats archers" in pvp
since it's anti archer it's not his full hp gear
i took these about an hour ago

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/3042347182_699d2c5a2d_b.jpg

the names of some got cut off but i don't feel like fixing it so there you go
the rings for example are not what he usually uses
(i've seen him with at least one ring of eternal solitude)

[Hell Ice]

okay, it turns out mimix has several sets of equipment
this equipment is what he uses when he "eats archers" in pvp
since it's anti archer it's not his full hp gear
i took these about an hour ago

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/3042347182_699d2c5a2d_b.jpg

the names of some got cut off but i don't feel like fixing it so there you go
the rings for example are not what he usually uses
(i've seen him with at least one ring of eternal solitude)

Honestly this set of equipment does not impress me at all. Pretty sure he is not using this set if his HP is going to break the 30k HP mark. This set just wouldn't do it unless he pumped 3 con 2 str per lv.

Have a look at this set:
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-08-01.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-59.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-58.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-56.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-55.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-53.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-51.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-47.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-42.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-39.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/yintai92/2008-07-0817-07-45.jpg

Those pics are 4 months old, and this WB has 20k+ HP in human form. His record is being killed by a MG in 14 seconds. Which explains why he slotted Magic Defense Soulstones in 3 equipments.

And aaerdan, my sources are real as well. What you are looking at, the 40k magic attack pic before this is actually a rank 2 MG in PWI-CN. And that pic is actually 1 year old already.

[aaerdan]

Not doubting you, HellIce.

Simply that I've seen Mimix's equips (well, screenshot anyway), so that is naturally more real to me than what you posted. Doesn't imply what you stated is false or untrue at all.

So ... 20k HP in humanoid form is how many HP in tiger form, roughly?

I can't read Chinese script well enough to make heads or tails of what you posted, though (I can guess, a bit).

Anyway, in what you posted earlier, it is possible then for a MG to deal 320k damage in 10 seconds?

[Macanfly]

yeah, what i posted was his anti-archer stuff, so it's got quite a bit of elemental defense pumped in it
other times he wears equipment with all hp stones
(and also much better rings)

I risked life and limb to bring you all these screenshots.
i took these pictures while he was engaged in a pk war with a couple of 9x eas (guess who won)

[Hell Ice]

Not doubting you, HellIce.

Simply that I've seen Mimix's equips (well, screenshot anyway), so that is naturally more real to me than what you posted. Doesn't imply what you stated is false or untrue at all.

So ... 20k HP in humanoid form is how many HP in tiger form, roughly?

I can't read Chinese script well enough to make heads or tails of what you posted, though (I can guess, a bit).

Anyway, in what you posted earlier, it is possible then for a MG to deal 320k damage in 10 seconds?

in the 1st place, why 320k? I would be very interested to see how you get this value.

[aaerdan]

in the 1st place, why 320k? I would be very interested to see how you get this value.

You're right, not 320,000, but 160,000 damage... my math is awful on the best days, downright atrocious when I'm at the office :D And my ability to reason drops considerably if my colleagues are noisy...

Anyway, how I got this figure: damage reduction in PvP is 75%, right?

If the WB has 40,000hp, and a hiero, that means the PKer needs to deal the equivalent of 80,000 damage (though actually inflicting 20,000 damage to the target) to break the hiero.

In the next 10 seconds, the PKer needs to deal 160,000 damage (40,000 damage inflicted) before the hiero cooldown ends.

[Hell Ice]

You're right, not 320,000, but 160,000 damage... my math is awful on the best days, downright atrocious when I'm at the office :D And my ability to reason drops considerably if my colleagues are noisy...

Anyway, how I got this figure: damage reduction in PvP is 75%, right?

If the WB has 40,000hp, and a hiero, that means the PKer needs to deal the equivalent of 80,000 damage (though actually inflicting 20,000 damage to the target) to break the hiero.

In the next 10 seconds, the PKer needs to deal 160,000 damage (40,000 damage inflicted) before the hiero cooldown ends.

I honestly doubt the damage reduction you refer to though. Nevertheless i will do some experiments.

In the meantime, lets see this:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e100/qwewheng/20080625175455uw0.jpg

Focus on the blue frame. Thats the damage of a Pyrogram from a sublime MG to a WB with aprrox 6.5k magic defense estimated from calculations of his armor magic def and his expected stat build. Note that its just a Pyrogram, and the MG is yet to use his fury.

[Senovit]

I honestly doubt the damage reduction you refer to though. Nevertheless i will do some experiments.

It's rather hard to believe you've played PW for 2 years and don't know that PvP damage has a reduction of 75% compared to PvE. You can test it if you want by hitting a level 1 monster with an attack, then dueling a level 1 player and using the same attack. Both should be so low level that any damage reduction they gain from armor/stats is 0%, and you'll be able to see the PvP reduction clearly.

Please post a screenshot of the Mage's magic attack, and the Werebeast's stats page. I'm not doubting your word, but it always looks suspicious if you simply post a screenshot with damage output and state it was a specific spell used on a WB that is level 100 with, as you say, 6.5k m.def.

I'd be content with character pages, but of course taking the screenshot upon moment of impact of pyrogram will make it much more clear, as we can then see the cooldown of pyrogram to know it was just used, as well as see that the damage wasn't edited in any way.

[Hell Ice]

It's rather hard to believe you've played PW for 2 years and don't know that PvP damage has a reduction of 75% compared to PvE. You can test it if you want by hitting a level 1 monster with an attack, then dueling a level 1 player and using the same attack. Both should be so low level that any damage reduction they gain from armor/stats is 0%, and you'll be able to see the PvP reduction clearly.

Please post a screenshot of the Mage's magic attack, and the Werebeast's stats page. I'm not doubting your word, but it always looks suspicious if you simply post a screenshot with damage output and state it was a specific spell used on a WB that is level 100 with, as you say, 6.5k m.def.

I'd be content with character pages, but of course taking the screenshot upon moment of impact of pyrogram will make it much more clear, as we can then see the cooldown of pyrogram to know it was just used, as well as see that the damage wasn't edited in any way.

1)In the 1st place i never doubted that there was a reduction, but the reduction that high is what i have been wondering.

2)You can doubt what i ever posted here, from head to toe. I would say that yes, there's a lot of reason to doubt it, i never played a MG, and it seemed like yeah Hell Ice is acting pro. However, you will want to do a survey among a series of players who played WB and ask them if what i am trying to portrait here is being used constantly in game or whatsoever. I have ample confidence that what i am writing here all the time will be proven.

3)Pictures does look suspicious eh? I will not deny it, i got shocked by that damage at 1st, but a series of pictures posted later have kept me known why MGs are being feared by so many classes in this game except Werefox. Since those pictures, presumably can be EDITED, then there's no point reposting them here for reference anymore.

Since my effort in proving that even a full +12 WB can be taken down by a MG single handedly seemed to have been doubted, i think there's no point in continuing this argument anymore. Though i can swear that i have not been putting up foul play here, it doesn't matter anymore. Consider my effort a complete waste.

EDIT:I never said that the WBs being targeted is a lv100 WB. Do not assume when you hate theoretical assumptions yourself.

[Senovit]

I thought the whole point of this topic was that a 40k hp wasn't that hard to take down. Obviously he would be around level 100, yes?

I didn't say the picture looked suspicious, just that it's quite possible that anyone can post a pic like that and say whatever spell they liked was the cause of the damage.

I'm not saying a mage CAN'T do it, I'm simply saying it's useless to post a string of spells and say "Yeah, a mage will always beat a wb with this"

You can post whatever you want and have whoever you want believe you, I was just saying stronger proof than a screenshot with some damage with whatever spell you claimed it was doesn't really prove much.

[CuzMoar]

Just to comment on this but I'm an 87 WB and the other day I fought a rank 8 MG (so level 100+) and he had a bit of trouble killing me. I'm nowhere near 40k HP in tiger form. And if rank 8 +12 can't kill me that easily...